To war or not to war?

[DAVID HESS]

Hey you People...Let's get serious. Tell me how you feel about our imminent incursion into the hot bed of Civilization...Yes or No?
David

[John T]

The threat is there. The evil is there.
Go in. The antiwar activists have a point
but they seem to have forgotten 9-11-01.
I have'nt.

[Edwardt]

Living in the NY area myself, it's easy to understand the fear and anger that was generated by 9/11. I have, and do, feel that every time I drive into Manhattan. I also don't think I qualify as a strict pacifist. However, the older I get, the more I understand that life is seldom a black
and/or white proposition. It's about ambiguities and complexities. History teaches that in any warfare, it's the innocent who die in the highest numbers. Historically, it's been the working class and minorites who fight and die in these wars. It's simplistic to say this conflict is about oil, but I do believe it's about control. Is
Saddam Hussein a tyrant, a "Monster?" There's empirical evidence of this. The problem is that we've tolerated tyrants very well when it's been to our advantage- look at Papa Doc Duvalier in Haiti or the Shah of Iran. The tone of statements from the White House resembles the dialogue of a grade-B western or a gangster flick. There are times when warfare may be necessary. The conflict in World War II is probably the best example of that (although, even there, our interests were more economic concerns than the destruction of human life- President Roosevelt sent back Jewish refugees who attempted to get into this country and the thought of dropping bombs on the traintracks that led to Auschwitz was never considered as an option). As far as the Iraq situation, we can always resort to warfare as a last option, if necessary. They are not an immediate threat to us and the thought of diplomacy seems to have been given short shrift by the current administration. The main problem I have with them is the low level of importance they seem to attach to human life, and their seeming readiness, even eagerness, to shed human blood. The situation is very complex and I'm reminded of a saying I've heard that seems valid- "You rid yourself of one tyrant and 10 more pop up in his place." This isn't a situation that developed overnight. It isn't a situation that's going to be resolved by the death of one person or another (what happened with Osama Bin Laden?).
Ed T.

[JundtHeald]

Sorry but I gotta say we must go after these bastards and go to war. I am sick of these low lifes and their hatred for peace. They are a threat. I love my country and the president and stick by him 100% with whatever he chooses to do. While we are at it, let's go after North Korea also.

[Hess-a-rama]

How about you David? You've got fighting age kids at home. What do you think?

Hessstations...you even old enough to vote? Or enlist? Who are you volunteering to die for you exactly?

Ed, I appreciate your well considered words. You made very good points in a reserved and understated fashion. Your patience is admirable, mine is not.

John, I'm a New Yorker and I've forgotten nothing. The 9/11 tragedy touched my family and everyone I know.

I also have not forgotten the fact that this country did not elect this president. I have not forgotten the fact that the bush family is intimately involved in the energy industry. I have not forgotten the fact that osama bin fucking shithead is suddenly a non-issue. I have not forgotten that b.s. (bushhole senior) also conducted a campaign of misdirection. (flag burning, spare me!) I have not forgotten the fact that this prez DID inhale, AND snort AND drink himself blind, and is damn shit-kickin' proud of the number of executions in Texas.

Regardless of how bitchen you think your mass-death video games are Hessstations, in real life, violence and death are not that cool. You don't DIE, then say, "Hey, maybe I'll go to the fucking mall next Tuesday".

I wouldn't trust b.j. to balance my check book.
I wouldn't hire him to babysit my dogs.
He's INSPIRING a new World War, he's not averting one. And for the first time in memory, WE... the champions of the world... we are the bad guys. Don't you see how horrible that is?! Don't you FEEL that?

It'll take the better part of a century for us to live this down. We DO need to act, but not this way. We owe the perpetrators of 9/11 a radiated crater of their very own, but you gotta understand that we're being confused into a bait and switch.

I think that there sincerely IS an impending problem with Hussein and with North Korea now, but b.j. made it so. He inspired it.

This is all very very wrong.

[DAVID HESS]

Wow,
Hessarama...elloquent beyond words. He's a fuckin' blight to and on humanity. He's a shit kicking cowboy who painted himself into a corner and is asking the rest of the world to rescue him. What? France, Germany and Russia suddenly turn the tables? It's a deal folks to turn us away from the place we should put the real emphasis...What's goin on at home with our civil liberties?! After all the ball clanging where did george jr. have as a backup position...Nada! Europe to the rescue! No war folks, just a lot of smoke and mirrors and if Saadam so much as steps one inch away from the plan then maybe he does get some of the fire power assembled in the gulf. It's about oil, power and the erosion of freedom and everyones buying into it. I expect we'll see Saadam in exile or dead within the month. N.Korea, that's another story. If you cry out for help in the wilderness, nobody hears. N.Korea is in their own wilderness with that fuckin' crazy man at the helm. They need aid, they need a stronger China and some genuine dialogue from their southern flank. Nuclear power can be used effectively both for good and evil, but evil too, is a perception and we have a paranoid leadership, for the most part. I'm a New Yorker and the did me in, they attacked my city, my home, my consciousness, and they will pay dearly...This is where we should be concentrating our collective energies. How does one stop terrorism? Seems to me education and a better way of life might help just a little. Things seem to be doing just fine, for the moment in Afghanistan. What's ironic is only a few months after we rid the world, so to speak of the Taliban devil, we're perceived as the bad guy and maybe that's right. We are Rome, but we're acting like the big bully on the block! We need to let the rest of the world build their own self confidence. Help not crush what's left of a very fragile self worth in the face of the Roman arsenal.
Enough...That's enough!
David

[LunA359]

I don't even want to read this... it hits too close to home. I just hope all our men make it home again. :/

[JundtHeald]

Hess-a-rama, I would proudly die for my country. Don't ever question my patriotism and yes I am old enough to vote.

[Edwardt]

Don't mean to belabor this, but there were certain points raised I felt should be responded to. I'm born and raised in America and the whole ostensible point of a democracy is to be able to question our so-called leaders when they make decisions that are detrimental to our lives and those of others. With all due respect, Hessstations, saying you're behind the President regardless of what he does seems to me to be antithetical to the whole notion of democracy. The history of this country is replete with examples of the perfidy of our leaders- look at J. Edgar Hoover, Nixon, Johnson, Reagan, etc. The Vietnam War did'nt end because of decisions our leaders made; it ended because the people rose up in righteous indignation. I tend to be a cynic, but I must say I was gratified to see the numbers of people who participated in the recent anti-war demonstrations. As comedian Bill Hicks once said when asked why he disliked the concept of nationalism, "Last time I looked, it was a round planet." It's nothing short of arrogance to say you're going to do whatever you want, regardless of global opinion. The more people learn, the more specious become the President's supposed justifications for war. There are direct links from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to terrorists, but the administration wants us to focus on Iraq. Why? These are questions the global community is asking and Bush and his lackeys are unable, or unwilling, to answer. The cynical answer is that it's a diversion from the horrid state of the economy. David mentioned the erosion of civil liberties and it's an excellent point. Does anyone really believe the Government will restore the rights it takes away now in the name of fighting terrorism at some distant point in the future? Not willingly, I wouldn't think. I may not be as passionate as Hess-a-rama, but I agree with the opinions he expressed. Bush is, at best, a mediocre intellect and a mediocre President. Even Nixon did some progressive things during his Presidency (opening relations with China). He was a crook, but no one ever questioned his intellectual capacity. In my opinion, Bush was put forward as the best the Republicans had to offer because the powers-that-be felt he was controllable and malleable. I'm offended that they want to conduct this is my name and with my tax-dollar. If Vietnam-war syndrome means we question unjust wars and our Government's seeming readiness to engage in them, then long live the Vietnam-war syndrome. During the past few decades, the Media seems to have engaged in aggressive anti-intellectualism. Maybe the postive thing that will come out of all this is that the people as a whole will emerge from their apathy and inertia, and rise up in opposition when their Government engages in imperialistic bloodshed in their name. I hope that proves true for the American people, for the Global community, and for me as well.
Ed T.

[DAVID HESS]

Ed T.
Right on! As cogent as ever and it seems to be that the idea of peace without war is catching on. To Whit the large number of protester, albeit in democratic strongholds, but what are we if not a democracy?! Don't be too hard on the younger generation, they have it all to go through, hopefully not again, best to avail them of our experience and let them handle their own decision making. It twould be nice, however, if we had someone in the White House who could set his own course and steer his own ship. I thought we got rid of the Gerald Ford syndrome years ago.
David